4.65 Spoiler Discussion

[savagelung]

Be sure to look up all the subtleties regarding diamond spawning. The poster above still seems convinced that staying above the lava layer is best for mining, which is not true. There's tons of videos out there that show empiric values for certain versions of Minecraft. Last I checked, just below lava layer gave a much better yield.

I've definitely heard this before, and I haven't done any analysis in MCedit, but I believe it.

However, I'm willing to bet that I can mine more efficiently (time per diamond) just above the lava level because I don't have to worry about plugging up lava lakes that I run into while mining.

[Confector de Caeli]

Spoiler

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Be sure to look up all the subtleties regarding diamond spawning. The poster above still seems convinced that staying above the lava layer is best for mining, which is not true. There's tons of videos out there that show empiric values for certain versions of Minecraft. Last I checked, just below lava layer gave a much better yield.

I've definitely heard this before, and I haven't done any analysis in MCedit, but I believe it.

However, I'm willing to bet that I can mine more efficiently (time per diamond) just above the lava level because I don't have to worry about plugging up lava lakes that I run into while mining.

Alright, time to break out the almighty Minecraft Wiki (and a fair amount of logic). So, according to this link: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Lava, the lava level is y=10. Savagelung is using branch mining right on top of this to easily avoid the issue of lava clearing, which makes sense to me. Gilberreke says that greater returns could be achieved at lower levels. According to this: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Diamond_ore, the best levels to mine diamonds are from y=8 to y=12, especially y=10 and y=11, which supports Savagelung's claims that his method is most efficient because, not only does he not have to clear lava , he is also in the ideal zone for diamonds. However, a large diamond mining survey was conducted with this result: http://media-mcw.cursecdn.com/d/d0/Diamond_D_28x.jpg. This suggests that the best area to mine is at either y=5/6 or y=11/12, with slightly higher yields at the former, but the additional yields are quite trivial and lava could get in the way, leaving this issue still mostly in the air, though I personally side with Savagelung's method being the most efficient. Nonetheless, Gilberreke is right: this really needs to looked into closely, considering that diamond ore is some of the most elusive stuff in the Minecraft world.

Maybe I'm out of line, but I believe a race to see who can mine the most diamonds in an hour is in order!

[DaveYanakov]

These numbers being reported varied so wildly from my experience that I had to run up a test world to check on them. Using the durability of a mattock as a gauge, exploiting exposed ores in caves any time the branch mine intersected and fully mining all ore veins resulted in the following when the mattock broke. Tunnel estimated at y=10-ish by going down to bedrock and up 5.

128 iron
22 gold
211 coal
530 redstone
64 lapis
11 diamonds

Five of those diamonds were found near the end of a very long cave network, six of them were found underneath a coal vein while digging the corridor. To be fair, this is less than 15 ingots worth of iron and a sample size of one. It's certainly no 100 diamonds per hour as the test took an hour and twenty minutes to wear down the steel.

[Mud]

3 birch logs gets you through a night... duuuuude.

[Confector de Caeli]

Spoiler

Show

These numbers being reported varied so wildly from my experience that I had to run up a test world to check on them. Using the durability of a mattock as a gauge, exploiting exposed ores in caves any time the branch mine intersected and fully mining all ore veins resulted in the following when the mattock broke. Tunnel estimated at y=10-ish by going down to bedrock and up 5.

128 iron
22 gold
211 coal
530 redstone
64 lapis
11 diamonds

Five of those diamonds were found near the end of a very long cave network, six of them were found underneath a coal vein while digging the corridor. To be fair, this is less than 15 ingots worth of iron and a sample size of one. It's certainly no 100 diamonds per hour as the test took an hour and twenty minutes to wear down the steel.

As I said, it's hard to gauge how many diamonds I've been getting because I haven't been officially keeping track. Plus, a lot of it is luck; you could easily have come upon a couple more diamond veins and then your numbers would have been much closer to my estimate. I'm glad someone finally actually did a survey in Better than Wolves, though. Nonetheless, your results lend support to my previous statement that iron and diamond mining output is now pretty close to equal. I mean you got eleven diamonds and fourteen iron ingots, which are equivalent in a tool and armor sense.

By the way, I loved your Let's Play :)

[DaveYanakov]

Once you get a mob trap running your iron production will skyrocket though. Mining it yourself is very much the early game method. It balances out once you add in the recycling as diamond cannot be broken back down once it has been assembled into an item.

[FlowerChild]

Plus: Iron is available from surface mining and cave exploration, while diamond is not, making it a much more viable early game resource.

Given the changes to stone tools, I sincerely doubt you want to start a bedrock level branch mine for diamonds before getting some iron picks going.

[Confector de Caeli]

Once you get a mob trap running your iron production will skyrocket though. Mining it yourself is very much the early game method. It balances out once you add in the recycling as diamond cannot be broken back down once it has been assembled into an item.

Plus: Iron is available from surface mining and cave exploration, while diamond is not, making it a much more viable early game resource. Given the changes to stone tools, I sincerely doubt you want to start a bedrock level branch mine for diamonds before getting some iron picks going.

I know, it just seemed somewhat strange that, in the early game, iron was as scarce as diamonds and gold scarcer.

[Simurgh]

So I had early game nailed. I had a stable source of food set up, chickens buried underground being fed by my melon/pumpkin farms - stray spiders deterred by some cactus on top. I was setting up a small mob tower and getting ready to get a kiln and crucible set up.

Then I emerge from my house and look out over the wall to check the coast is clear to go out. There were cobwebs all over the place. I could see a torch where my chicken cave is. "Huh, the particle must be glitching through the block above it" thought I. Then I notice my pumpkins and melons were pretty devastated.

Turns out an enderman must have opened an escape route for my chickens. They had fled from the spiders and a good few were still hiding under the slabs covering some waterways in my farm. The spiders must have been hopping all over my pumpkin and melon farms, breaking the stems. Kinda wish I'd seen it as it would have been hilarious. Just goes to show how simple changes can have some really nice interactions.

Looks like I'll have to hold back my mob tower and tech tree progress till this is sorted :/

Lesson learned - enderman-proof everything.

[Mud]

Lesson learned - enderman-proof everything.

how does one do this?

[savagelung]

Lesson learned - enderman-proof everything.

how does one do this?

In Simurgh's case, just avoid the blocks that Endermen can pick up. You can get a list of blocks they will pick up on The Minecraft Wiki

[FlowerChild]

In Simurgh's case, just avoid the blocks that Endermen can pick up. You can get a list of blocks they will pick up on The Minecraft Wiki

Endermen pick up different blocks in BTW.

[savagelung]

In Simurgh's case, just avoid the blocks that Endermen can pick up. You can get a list of blocks they will pick up on The Minecraft Wiki

Endermen pick up different blocks in BTW.

I did not know this. That explains a lot >_<

[Confector de Caeli]

In Simurgh's case, just avoid the blocks that Endermen can pick up. You can get a list of blocks they will pick up on The Minecraft Wiki

Endermen pick up different blocks in BTW.

I remember how angry I was when Mojang nerfed Endermen way back when by limiting them to only picking up dirt and flowers and such. Yet again, FlowerChild manages to make a seemingly trivial mob in Vanilla into something to be feared.

[FlowerChild]

I revamped Endermen pretty extensively in the past, but this has very little to do with 4.65 so I'd ask you to take such discussion elsewhere.

[Confector de Caeli]

I revamped Endermen pretty extensively in the past, but this has very little to do with 4.65 so I'd ask you to take such discussion elsewhere.

Okay, sorry. I think I actually will, as that was one of those things that drove me to using Better than Wolves in the first.

[johnt]

After this weekend, I think I am turning hardcore spawn off. It's just too frustrating to have to essentially start over again when you die. I managed to make my way back to my spawn camp after several hours only to die from starvation because all the animals near my base had died. (well, from running to grab some pumpkins as night was falling so I wouldn't starve to death). It would definitely be a lot less frustrating on a multiplayer server where after a few weeks, you'd have little camps everywhere that you can find. Other than that, though, I'm really enjoying the progression of the early game. Unfortunately, I think that if you DO have a spawn base, and you have hardcore spawn off, death might be slightly too easy on you.

[Benanov]

So I've been playing on one of the SMP servers, HC spawn is off, not really my thing, but okay.

I have one cow, the remains of another, three wolves, and most of the crops.

I can't feed my wolves.

But...I did just fashion a cauldron, and I have sugar, and I have wheat...

Success!

BTW. The only game that encourages you to kill yourself, you fatty. And when you jump, you disgusting obese thing, aim for the cauldron.

[Mud]

BTW. The only game that encourages you to kill yourself, you fatty. And when you jump, you disgusting obese thing, aim for the cauldron.

That sounds borderline exploitative :\

Why not hunt your friends instead?