Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion

[Foxy]

the wolves, don't know why they press it, they are so stupid to press it only to see what happen

[Xeo]

I hope they implement wolves blowing down your hay bale houses... I really hope they do...

New wolf mob trap: Brick house with strangely large chimney, when the wolves find they can't blow down the house they climb through the chimney into your boiling cauldron.

[MrPlatypus]

Still laughing at Shengji's "vBS" comment...

[Six]

I'm still scratching my head as to what the intended use of that thing is, but probably shouldn't, as it screams of just being another feature tacked on for adventure maps.

I would guess it's more a fact that it would have been reasonably easy to implement into the game with what was already there. I don't really see a lot of 'Why?' going into the design of late, more just a 'Hey, this would be easy to add'. The 'hopper & chest cart' functionality overlap with the 'hopper cart & chests' being a prime example of this.

[FlowerChild]

I would guess it's more a fact that it would have been reasonably easy to implement into the game with what was already there. I don't really see a lot of 'Why?' going into the design of late, more just a 'Hey, this would be easy to add'. The 'hopper & chest cart' functionality overlap with the 'hopper cart & chests' being a prime example of this.

Yeah, I think I agree with you there. I remember a conversation I had with Anarchitect back in the day about how minimalist design wasn't really part of my overall philosophy, or at least wasn't one I'd admit to. In retrospect though, I think it is indeed one that I've just never really voiced or was fully aware that I was doing, as "bang for the buck" doesn't fully describe the process I go through in deciding whether a feature is worth including or not, as important and dear as that concept is to me.

This kind of thing does illustrate to me that it is actually something I think about, as throwing in this kind of extraneous single-purpose crap certainly does strike me as wrong, no matter how easy it is to implement.

[Xeo]

I remember when I first started playing minecraft I felt like there was a lack of abstract entities in the game. Stuff like all these completely pointless changes they've been making as of late would have made me elated if not for their actual play value but for their simple existence, at the time I felt that would make the game more diverse and feel more populated. Now as my view of the game has matured I realize that is utter BS, it's those kind of changes that make the difference between a beautifully cut diamond(like BTW) and a pointy ball of metal that stabs you in the ass because you thought it would be a good idea to stick a bunch of spikes in it cause you had some scrap metal lying around. I think the way Mojang views their own game stems from the fact that they don't understand what makes it a great game in the first place; the simple entities and the endless creativity that stem from them.

[FlowerChild]

Well, I've made mistakes to be sure. Stuff like the Vase for example makes me wonder what the fuck I was thinking. Actually...I know what I was thinking: that my cool new pottery system needed more pots ;)

But yeah, I do look back on those as mistakes when I make them, and I like to think those are fewer and further between with time. With Mojang though, they've been on a pretty much non-stop spree with them ever since tripwires. I wince when I look at the most recently added blocks in the code when checking how many blockIDs I have left with each new MC release.

[Xeo]

See, it's that kind of design sentience I love about you. You look at what you've done and think about it something that's sadly lacking in people today.

[nmarshall23]

This kind of thing does illustrate to me that it is actually something I think about, as throwing in this kind of extraneous single-purpose crap certainly does strike me as wrong, no matter how easy it is to implement.

If find that think like a graphic designer helps. Graphic design is a little bit easier to grasp. Extraneous single-purpose fluff, is just that fluff that clutters and distracts. I feel that, Mojang has fallen into the trap that it's a sandbox game, and that you always want more toys to play with in a sandbox! Let's add Mechs!

I hope one day, someone wakes up and tells them, dude WTF. And Mojang hires someone to manage the herd of cats that are their programmers..

[dawnraider]

This kind of thing does illustrate to me that it is actually something I think about, as throwing in this kind of extraneous single-purpose crap certainly does strike me as wrong, no matter how easy it is to implement.

If find that think like a graphic designer helps. Graphic design is a little bit easier to grasp. Extraneous single-purpose fluff, is just that fluff that clutters and distracts. I feel that, Mojang has fallen into the trap that it's a sandbox game, and that you always want more toys to play with in a sandbox! Let's add Mechs!

I hope one day, someone wakes up and tells them, dude WTF. And Mojang hires someone to manage the herd of cats that are their programmers..

Oh,plenty of people have told them wtf. The issue is that more of the screaming self-entitled brats drown out the sentient beings and make Mojang think they have done nothing wrong

[Thorium-232]

Oh,plenty of people have told them wtf. The issue is that more of the screaming self-entitled brats drown out the sentient beings and make Mojang think they have done nothing wrong

The thing of it is though, they are completely capable of building a wall between them and the unwashed masses. It's not hard. There is no reason for them to go down this "design by (mouthbreathing) committee" road they're on other than they lack the discipline to stay focused away from it. It's been said more than a few times around here that the cause of all this is a glaring lack of experience on Mojang's part, and really, the magic left the day Notch did. His ability to throw both middle fingers in the air and make a game he wanted to make are both what made old vanilla good, and what's drawn him away from it now.

[FlowerChild]

The thing of it is though, they are completely capable of building a wall between them and the unwashed masses. It's not hard.

<raises hand>

If I may interject here...it is hard man :)

At least without a professional organization to shield you from it (which I grew accustomed to having in the game industry), it's honestly a bitch and a half, at least if you want to maintain contact with the community in any way.

I think Mojang has always prided itself on maintaining that kind of contact, much like I do, and I have an audience only a fraction the size of theirs.

Now, I think you either become a hard son of a bitch in response to that <raises hand again>, isolate yourself from it <points to almost any other prominent mod author>, begin to cave to the almost continual pressure <points to Mojang>, or quit <doesn't point at anyone cause they're no longer there>. I think it exceedingly rare that people can remain balanced in such a circumstance, and I can't really think of anyone I've seen actually do so over the long haul.

It's no small thing to deal with a large amount of public pressure and demand, and the more prominent and dramatic aspects of this mod's history bear testament to my ongoing process of trying to learn how to cope with it while also trying to remain true to myself in the process. That's also with me having come into this with a wealth of experience, and with what I think is a large amount of self confidence, which probably makes me more capable of dealing with this kind of thing than most.

There is no reason for them to go down this "design by (mouthbreathing) committee" road they're on other than they lack the discipline to stay focused away from it. It's been said more than a few times around here that the cause of all this is a glaring lack of experience on Mojang's part, and really, the magic left the day Notch did. His ability to throw both middle fingers in the air and make a game he wanted to make are both what made old vanilla good, and what's drawn him away from it now.

Honestly though, I get the impression the community was what did Notch in, in terms of ongoing MC development. Yes, I do think he's a strong designer with his own clear vision, but I don't think he could deal with the continual fingers required to maintain that once the community went beyond a certain size. I think very few people can.

[jecowa]

Well, I've made mistakes to be sure. Stuff like the Vase for example makes me wonder what the fuck I was thinking. Actually...I know what I was thinking: that my cool new pottery system needed more pots ;)

Why is the vase bad? Is it because it's an entity?

[Shengji]

... or quit <doesn't point at anyone cause they're no longer there>.

Hello!

Seriously though, read and reread what FC wrote there, it is spot on. I worked in the games industry for 8 years and ran the full gamut from major, multi studio international studio to self published 1 man indie release to niche euro-sim style release in Britain, the states, Canada, Europe and Japan and there is one universal truth - The designers are under constant pressure and criticism (Note that well meaning suggestions translate directly into pressure)

I have move my career on to board games now and still meet the exact same issues, except having your board games published involves going to trade events and meeting and greeting the unwashed consumers - and boy do people feel like they don't need to wash before wrapping their arms all over you for a photo. Shudder...

But seriously, I recently announced a game with a particular mechanic - the dice roll. You would not believe the stress it has had in my life because dice rolls are not in vogue right now in the board game industry. I have had my inbox full of suggestions of how to eliminate dice rolls from my game and these are from people who I have passed my email address onto, supposedly trusted contacts... Here's the thing they really should understand but don't. It's my game. I know what I'm trying to achieve, I'm currently the only person in the world who's played my game. You want to know why businesses are evasive when it comes to answering questions and defining exactly what their product is going to be? It's because simply confirming that a board game is shipping with a dice can place you under attack from people who think they know better - which in many cases, people are so arrogant as to think they are an order of magnitude more intelligent than I am.

Oh and if you dare ignore them or suggest their idea isn't perfect, your fanatics... sorry I mean't fans prove just how thin the line between love and hate really is. I hope I don't need to remind people why I don't make mods anymore.

I have been accused more than once of mindlessly sticking up for FC and people in a similar position. Trust me, the one thing I am not doing is sticking up for them mindlessly!

[FlowerChild]

I have been accused more than once of mindlessly sticking up for FC and people in a similar position. Trust me, the one thing I am not doing is sticking up for them mindlessly!

I seriously love hearing your stories man. Really glad you decided to share some of them like this, as it's great to have someone around that I can relate to on this level.

Why is the vase bad? Is it because it's an entity?

No, I'm talking about from a design standpoint. It really doesn't have an in-game use (beyond adventure maps...which is pretty much what Mojang has been doing), it doesn't really have potential for additional ones, it isn't used to make a larger mechanic more interesting (like the urn does), it really just doesn't do anything besides sit there.

I don't have an issue with aesthetic blocks, but that one is so special case that it grates my design sensibilities. Something like the tables, benches, or multiple kinds of fences, I love, as you can build a whole whack of shit out of them and really put them to creative uses. With Vases though, I can't remember the last time I saw a build that really used them, so I don't think they can even be justified in that regard.

And no, that's not a request for suggestions as to how they might be used ;)

[Shengji]

I seriously love hearing your stories man. Really glad you decided to share some of them like this, as it's great to have someone around that I can relate to on this level.

Well, the people who I was trying to avoid found me and are coming at me with the white flag, asking to talk it out and make up etc - all it proves is that they can't cope with the fact I turned my back on them and their little dramas and that the only way to win their game is to not play.

(If you were born after 1990 and you get they reference, you may feel proud, if you were born before 1980 and didn't get it, go hang your head in shame!)

It just means I don't have to be so paranoid about what I talk about anymore and can tell some of my stories, and yeah, I can completely relate - I'm quite jealous about how you cope with it all honestly! I don't, any time you see me post as if I don't speak English as my first language, you know I've had a stressful day!

[Mud]

On vases. They're fun on multi player servers for killing looters who expect to find something good inside and only find blasting oil.

[FlowerChild]

(If you were born after 1990 and you get they reference, you may feel proud, if you were born before 1980 and didn't get it, go hang your head in shame!)

It just means I don't have to be so paranoid about what I talk about anymore and can tell some of my stories, and yeah, I can completely relate - I'm quite jealous about how you cope with it all honestly! I don't, any time you see me post as if I don't speak English as my first language, you know I've had a stressful day!

How about a nice game of chess? :)

I am actually rather envious of your ability to be open to that degree man. I certainly can't, or at least don't feel I can. Going back to the original point, I can only imagine what it's like for a guy like Notch whose real name and image are so well known to the community. The feeling of public pressure must be extreme.

[DaveYanakov]

If it makes you feel any better I have in the past built a couple dozen walls out of vases filled with cobble in the past. The open air pillar look for a window or even the entire wall is quite pleasing.

[jecowa]

I put cobble in my vases too (so I don't accidentally stick anything important in there).

[JakeZKAM]

I really love it when the game designers on here start chatting about some of the lesser known troubles that come with the job, it really does help with understanding the process behind making a game, and while it does show some of the less pleasant requirements of the job, it certainly is inspiring as well! (At least for me :p)

[MrPlatypus]

If it makes you feel any better I have in the past built a couple dozen walls out of vases filled with cobble in the past. The open air pillar look for a window or even the entire wall is quite pleasing.

Would you mind posting a picture of this? I am having a hard time visualizing a wall of vases.

[FlowerChild]

My own fault guys, but I think we're straying a little too far into off topic here. Please feel free to continue these various conversations elsewhere.

[MrPlatypus]

My own fault guys, but I think we're straying a little too far into off topic here. Please feel free to continue these various conversations elsewhere.

Makes sense. I withdraw my request for pictures. :)

[FlowerChild]

Ok...wait. I didn't even realize 1.5.1 was out until earlier today (shows how much I care at this point), but reading over the change-log, I almost blew beer out of my nose at the following:

-More FPS, bringing levels back to what they were in 1.4

Fuck me. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.