Mob trap science: Handling Endermen

[agentwiggles]

So, as I said in my other thread, I've been constructing a mob trap lately, in my main overworld base. It looks like this now:

Spoiler

Show

Once I get the edges smoothed out and such, I'm going to start building the mechanism for moving mobs to the killing saws (saving spawning pads for last while my new vine farm runs). I've been considering doing this in a waterless way with pistons, and it occurred to me that I might be able to handle Endermen too this way, but I wasn't sure about a few things, such as:

-They teleport when damaged. My logic is that ideally, they'll teleport back to the trap in most cases, so I don't know how important this actually is.
-I've heard mention of them dropping blocks and gumming up the works of mob traps. How exactly does this work? Is it a consideration in this kind of design?
-Is it even worthwhile to have a trap that supports Endermen on the overworld given the ease of constructing one in the end?

What's your opinion on those questions, and are there any other design issues with mass-slaughtering Endermen?

[BlackCat]

Typically it's best to make a separate trap for them in the end, they are just generally a huge nuisance unless you use a purely fall damage based trap.

[dawnraider]

even then, it necessitates using a trap 2x as high

[Utterbob]

-They teleport when damaged. My logic is that ideally, they'll teleport back to the trap in most cases, so I don't know how important this actually is.

Unless you can bring mobs up or go nuts with concrete that wont really work. They can teleport anywhere they can fit so lighting caves/sorting room etc wont deter them. Unless you have a underground trap that can lift them back to the saws (or fill everything in) and the trap is big enough, around the saws, to encapsulate the whole teleport range, they are going to just end up all over the outside world, which is going to impact your trap a lot due to them using up the mob limit. That said, pistons and fall damage type traps solve the problem easily... dead Endermen don't teleport!

So if you can meet all of those conditions and your collection room and system all have no more than 2 blocks height (or you go with a piston/fall trap) then you can solve the teleport issue, its just very hard compared non-Endermen designs.

-I've heard mention of them dropping blocks and gumming up the works of mob traps. How exactly does this work? Is it a consideration in this kind of design?

In vMC they do but with BTW they grab a block, convert it to Endstone and 'teleport' back to the end (despawn really). I don't think they actually drop them now at all.

-Is it even worthwhile to have a trap that supports Endermen on the overworld given the ease of constructing one in the end?

Given the above, I would say no. Unless 'worth' includes the sense of achievement of creating a trap that does mitigate all of those problems.

[SterlingRed]

I believe the 'dropping' mechanic you mention is actually the block placing change fc discussed. Endermen place end stone in the end. This means that some types of mob traps in the end can stop working because well, most traps would break with random blocks scattered about.
As far as I know this is not a problem in the over world. Enderman steal materials from that realm.

[agentwiggles]

Ah, ok. It seems like it's going to be far more of a pain than it's worth, so I suppose that I'll save the Endermen for now until I start a trap in the End. Thanks all!

[BobSlingblade679]

I have a mob trap that is 3 blocks tall per level and all the mobs fall into a water stream and are killed by a saw. I don't get a LOT of ender pearls but I *do* get ender pearls. So, I would say just build the trap as normal but make the levels high enough that they can spawn in it. The efficiency may not be GREAT but its effective enough to save up for a trip to your first stronghold.

Leaving it running over night may get me between half and a full stack of pearls (8-16).

[FlowerChild]

I have a mob trap that is 3 blocks tall per level and all the mobs fall into a water stream and are killed by a saw. I don't get a LOT of ender pearls but I *do* get ender pearls. So, I would say just build the trap as normal but make the levels high enough that they can spawn in it. The efficiency may not be GREAT but its effective enough to save up for a trip to your first stronghold.

Leaving it running over night may get me between half and a full stack of pearls (8-16).

I think there are a couple of problems with this you might not be considering:

First, endermen will teleport away when they hit the water, and potentially into your base where they'll steal blocks.

Secondly, because endermen are spawning and then warping away, they're decreasing the overall effeciency of your trap because they're taking up space in the mob limit, basically in the same way as if you don't fully light up the surrounding terrain.

You may be killing some due to fall damage, but it doesn't really sound worth it to me, especially given that you're not getting any endstone from them and aren't killing them in sufficient volume to get their scroll drops. What you are doing is creating yourself a lot of potential trouble for very little benefit.

[BobSlingblade679]

I have a mob trap that is 3 blocks tall per level and all the mobs fall into a water stream and are killed by a saw. I don't get a LOT of ender pearls but I *do* get ender pearls. So, I would say just build the trap as normal but make the levels high enough that they can spawn in it. The efficiency may not be GREAT but its effective enough to save up for a trip to your first stronghold.

Leaving it running over night may get me between half and a full stack of pearls (8-16).

I think there are a couple of problems with this you might not be considering:

First, endermen will teleport away when they hit the water, and potentially into your base where they'll steal blocks.

Secondly, because endermen are spawning and then warping away, they're decreasing the overall effeciency of your trap because they're taking up space in the mob limit, basically in the same way as if you don't fully light up the surrounding terrain.

You may be killing some due to fall damage, but it doesn't really sound worth it to me, especially given that you're not getting any endstone from them and aren't killing them in sufficient volume to get their scroll drops. What you are doing is creating yourself a lot of potential trouble for very little benefit.

I think this is more of an issue in the End. Endermen have a very low spawn rate in the Overworld so I rarely see them. I know they teleport away when they receive damage but from my experience with my trap, it does produce decent output. Maybe mine is *slightly* less efficient but because the spawn rate is low I don't notice any significant loss.

Now, yes, I know its not enough to get the scrolls but that's not the purpose I'm trying to serve by accomodating for them in the Overworld. My first trap accomodated for them so I wouldn't have to search as hard for them to get the pearls I needed to make a trip to the stronghold.

[FlowerChild]

I think this is more of an issue in the End. Endermen have a very low spawn rate in the Overworld so I rarely see them. I know they teleport away when they receive damage but from my experience with my trap, it does produce decent output. Maybe mine is *slightly* less efficient but because the spawn rate is low I don't notice any significant loss.

Now, yes, I know its not enough to get the scrolls but that's not the purpose I'm trying to serve by accomodating for them in the Overworld. My first trap accomodated for them so I wouldn't have to search as hard for them to get the pearls I needed to make a trip to the stronghold.

Perhaps man, but I think it's a fair amount of extra work and a rather dangerous thing to be recommending for a handful of pearls from overnight AFKing, especially since hunting them for that first trip really isn't that hard, and is rather fun in itself.

Enderman spawns may be rarer than other mobs, but any mobs that don't despawn while others are killed begin to slowly stack up. You're basically creating a process of natural selection whereby the endermen are the only survivors, then when the next batch spawns, they once again have a chance of spawning as more endermen. In other words, with time the endermen will end up grabbing a larger and larger chunk of the available spawns.

Of course, if they do wind up grabbing blocks, they'll be able to despawn by warping away with their goodies to the end dimension, but again, you're then risking them doing that in the area around the trap.

[BobSlingblade679]

I think this is more of an issue in the End. Endermen have a very low spawn rate in the Overworld so I rarely see them. I know they teleport away when they receive damage but from my experience with my trap, it does produce decent output. Maybe mine is *slightly* less efficient but because the spawn rate is low I don't notice any significant loss.

Now, yes, I know its not enough to get the scrolls but that's not the purpose I'm trying to serve by accomodating for them in the Overworld. My first trap accomodated for them so I wouldn't have to search as hard for them to get the pearls I needed to make a trip to the stronghold.

Perhaps man, but I think it's a fair amount of extra work and a rather dangerous thing to be recommending for a handful of pearls from overnight AFKing, especially since hunting them for that first trip really isn't that hard, and is rather fun in itself.

Enderman spawns may be rarer than other mobs, but any mobs that don't despawn while others are killed begin to slowly stack up. You're basically creating a process of natural selection whereby the endermen are the only survivors, then when the next batch spawns, they once again have a chance of spawning as more endermen. In other words, with time the endermen will end up grabbing a larger and larger chunk of the available spawns.

Of course, if they do wind up grabbing blocks, they'll be able to despawn by warping away with their goodies to the end dimension, but again, you're then risking them doing that in the area around the trap.

Hmm... My trap is made completely out of stone brick. Does that matter? (I don't know which blocks they can pick up if not all) I've not actually checked inside my traps (I have three) in a while but I haven't noticed a drop in output over time. And you may find fighting Endermen to be fun but I find them to be rather annoying due to them teleporting away. Fighting a few here and there is cool, sure, but when I had to actually farm them it was rather tedious, particularly when combined with the low spawn rate. Having a mob trap that gave me a few pearls allowed me to focus on my other devices.

You've sparked my curiosity, though. I might finally get around to building my fourth trap this week and I'll make it two blocks tall instead and see if it has a higher output and by how much.

[Donzaffi]

A little comprehensive question, does this mean a Enderman trap in the overworld isn't worth the time spend to build it ?

[wirer]

A little comprehensive question, does this mean a Enderman trap in the overworld isn't worth the time spend to build it ?

Probably not, if you have access to the End. Much more efficient if the mob trap spawns only Endermen.

In the overworld, any Enderman trap can also spawn normal aggressive mobs as well, making a pure enderman trap improbable.