What is BWF?

[cpw]

I genuinely like it. It is very creative, and if you look past the BWF sub agenda I think it is a valuable message - forge is a tool, an api, NOT a movement. I wish to resist the hero worshippers who believe that we're doing something amazing. You think I enjoy the crazy at MCF and other places, both for and against me? I am about building the best possible modding platform just as you are about building the best possible mod. I am not looking to start a cult. People should choose forge because it does what they want, NOT by fiat or for any other reason.

BWF was, in my opinion, a misguided but genuine attempt at unifying those two things. There was no other agenda, that I have ever been aware. Lex was careless with his enthusiasm but that was his only sin. He doesn't enjoy the crazy any more than any of us do.

Anyway, if you feel that expressions of agreement in principle are inappropriate I will remove it. But I will be sad, the same as I was when you turned me down before..

(I do think it a really excellent banner by the way, my props to the artist)

[FlowerChild]

BWF was, in my opinion, a misguided but genuine attempt at unifying those two things. There was no other agenda, that I have ever been aware. Lex was careless with his enthusiasm but that was his only sin. He doesn't enjoy the crazy any more than any of us do.

Seriously man...don't start. Lex is being a fascist prick with this whole thing, there's 7 hours of video backing that up, and I really don't take kindly to people practicing revisionist history on that in an attempt to sanitize his involvement. "Careless in his enthusiasm" my ass.

And yes, there is most certainly an agenda behind it. You may not have been let in on the whole thing, but I think that has been made abundantly clear by Lex and his cronies over the past week.

If your use of the banner is an indication of actual support for my "cause" here, then by all means do so. I think it's pretty obvious however that in Lex's case, it most certainly isn't, and due to your close association with him, I suspect many people will interpret your use of it as poking fun at my objections to BWF, rather than making a statement in support of them.

[FlowerChild]

Actually, screw that. Anyone that has the gall to try and justify what has happened here, even if partially, is not welcome in this community.

If you object to what is happening, then man up and speak out against it. If you just want to stick your head in the sand and hope it will just go away, then I want nothing to do with you.

[FlowerChild]

And I would like to finish that off with a comment on your use of the word "was" with regards to BWF as if this is somehow over.

There is no credible evidence to support BWF no longer existing or to justify it being referred to in the past tense like that. On the contrary, everything I've seen indicates it's plowing full-steam ahead with development, and that the site getting pulled the other day was just Lex having some "fun" trying to convince me it had gone away so I'd tone down my protests over it.

[Azradun]

BWF was, in my opinion, a misguided but genuine attempt at unifying those two things.

Then, by your line of reasoning, I am absolutely free in the future to take anyone's mod, for example Azanor's Thaumcraft 2, and rewrite it for 1.4.5, just because I prefer 2 to 3? :P It will be genuine! I can safely disregard copyrights and the code being closed source for that, too. I also don't have to ask the mod creator for any permissions. I'd just take it, reverse-engineer it, and present in on some frequented vid channel.

Ah, yes, I'd also criticize the original code heavily, showing no respect to the mod maker in the process.

Thanks goodness my line of reasoning is a bit different, so I find doing such a thing abhorrent :)

Edit: missing *I*.

[BinoAl]

Then, by your line of reasoning, I am absolutely free in the future to take anyone's mod, for example Azanor's Thaumcraft 2, and rewrite it for 1.4.5, just because I prefer 2 to 3? :P It will be genuine! I can safely disregard copyrights and the code being closed source for that, too. I also don't have to ask the mod creator for any permissions. I'd just take it, reverse-engineer it, and present in on some frequented vid channel.

Ah, yes, I'd also criticize the original code heavily, showing no respect to the mod maker in the process.

Thanks goodness my line of reasoning is a bit different, so I find doing such a thing abhorrent :)

Edit: missing *I*.

There's no need to be so confrontational. He's banned now anyway, give it a rest

[CrafterOfMines57]

He's banned now anyway, give it a rest

Banned? Are we not allowed to share our honest opinions?

I mean sure, given the situation,

BWF was, in my opinion, a misguided but genuine attempt at unifying those two things. There was no other agenda, that I have ever been aware. Lex was careless with his enthusiasm but that was his only sin. He doesn't enjoy the crazy any more than any of us do.

was pretty pro-Lex, but was a ban really necessary?

[FlowerChild]

was pretty pro-Lex, but was a ban really necessary?

Necessary? No. Entirely warranted? Yes.

Sorry, but I won't tolerate someone twisting the truth so blatantly in order to justify a pro-Forge/pro-Lex standpoint on this. Not on these forums anyways.

As I said, someone making such statements in blatant disregard to the evidence available is not something I'll put up with, especially when it's such a prominent member of the community, whom people thus tend to take statements from at face value.

7 hour video of Lex ranting at length about me and everything to do with me, is somehow to be interpreted as "careless enthusiasm", with no real agenda?

Yeah, sure buddy. You can preach that kinda transparent schlock over on the Forge sites...not here.

[Azradun]

There's no need to be so confrontational. He's banned now anyway, give it a rest

This wasn't confrontational - I just stated clearly what his line of reasoning amounts to. Bare facts without fancy words covering the truth. An often necessary reduction.

I didn't know he was banned when I was writing my response. It doesn't show on the page anywhere near the user. I think that the banning itself was a bit excessive (I prefer to argue/educate people until they adopt my point of view), but it's not my forum :P

[azagal73]

It's definitely continuing.

https://twitter.com/BetterWithForge

[walker_boh_65]

If a silver lining does exist in this whole thing, "he" does seem to want to make it public.

Wait never mind, looks like just anyone can get it, for "private" use: https://twitter.com/BetterWithForge/sta ... 4877392896

[Ultionis]

I am not planning to release this to the public for the forseeable future, it is being designed to be used on my own and friends servers.

The mere fact that a public twitter account is being used to announce updates on the project stands contrary to this statement. Also, this person adding his own changes to this supposed port of Better Than Wolves completely abolishes the argument that "FlowerChild should be glad that his mod is getting exposure etc etc" - seeing as it's not a replicate of his work, but an abomination sewn together. Not to mention that FC has stated on numerous times that he could not care less about popularity.

You can't justify ripping off art. Copying an artwork whilst adding your own "creativity" to it and claiming that it's better is arrogant and slimy.

[FlowerChild]

The mere fact that a public twitter account is being used to announce updates on the project stands contrary to this statement.

Yup, exactly. It's just additional obfuscation so that they can point to it and say "I'm being a good guy! I didn't mean for it to get out!"

In other words: just more BS. It's basically the same line Technic used back in the day with "we just made it for friends and it somehow became popular!!!!"

[Gears]

One thing that I found amusing is that he is apparently keeping Lexmanos heads as a drop for pigs.

[FlowerChild]

Just wanted to address this little tweet of his:

Where as I have no such limitation. Also, FC stated he bears no ill will toward me, only Lex.

Ummm...yeah, keep dreaming buddy. I hold Lex primarily responsible for using his position as head of the Forge to turn this into a much bigger deal than it would have been otherwise, but do I appreciate you continuing on with this and further promoting it through this Twitter account? Fuck no.

You're a total douche for doing this, however, you're just a less significant douche than Lex is, which is why I focus my attention on his involvement in this.

[walker_boh_65]

Should I enlighten him by linking him to your last post FC, any objections on your part man?

[FlowerChild]

Should I enlighten him by linking him to your last post FC, any objections on your part man?

Go ahead. I strongly suspect this is all just bullshit posturing on his part though and he's well aware of what he's doing. IMO, they're just trying to continue the act that was put on about this guy being some "lone gunman" that had Lex blow this out of proportion.

It's very reminiscent of what happened with Technic/Yogscast actually where everyone will wind up pointing there fingers elsewhere while everyone denies responsibility for what has happened.

Regardless, having that link up on the twitter account may act as inspiration for further questions to be asked, so I certainly have no objections to it.

[walker_boh_65]

And the response if anyone cares to see it: https://twitter.com/BetterWithForge/sta ... 8236793859

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, figures. I really like the contrast between "I'm not going to distribute it" and the "sure...I'll trust any random individual with a twitter account to act as a 'tester'.

The layers of shit just keep on stacking up here.

[walker_boh_65]

He doesn't seem like a bad guy, nor does he seem to be doing this with bad intentions. But he is still doing it and not keeping it very private at all.

Call it a hunch or just me being a bit cynical about this but, I think that this "mis-informant" (as I will call him) is Lex. Who else would want to see the project go more into the public eye again then Lex?

I don't know, still somethings just not adding up for me here. The guy doesn't seem like a total douche as person (his actions speak otherwise though) so I don't understand why he would be a total dick and make BWF, unless of course Lex has got a couple over fingers up his ass controlling him like a puppet. This whole thing is just to full of shit for me to even try to understand the motives behind it, and most likely we will never have a clue, just the best guesses we can piece together.

[FlowerChild]

Like I said man, I suspect any non-douchery that he may be displaying is just an act to divert blame. We already went through this whole drama with Gil reporting that he thought he knew who this guy was, only for it to turn out to be a big charade put on for the purposes of disinformation.

As you yourself point out, his own actions are contradicting what he's saying. For example, if this is intended to be some kind of private work he's doing for personal use, why the Twitter account? If he has as much respect for me as he says he does, why does he persist in this when it's having an obviously detrimental effect on both my well being and the development of BTW, and despite my public and extremely vocal protestations?

You don't attempt to publicly answer questions and provide information about something that you don't intend to actually release or promote, hence his excuses about that are rather transparent. Again, I view this more as an attempt to further confuse the issue in a Technic-like fashion.

Obviously, we've seen a lot of disinformation since the start of this, and if I can offer any advice: don't drink the Kool Aid :)

[Gears]

Wow... Here was his reasoning for making the mod:

I made this because I wanted to extend BTW with more of the gameplay like it already has, but the lack of IDs and other things forge provides was going to make it impossible, that is when and why that I initially decided to rewrite it. I was always told to either 'code it or shut it', which is a descriptive if not terse saying. I am one to always 'code it'.

You know, now I'm actually wondering, is it possible to extend the block IDs in minecraft without running into base classes BTW edits? I've managed to raise the limit during 1.2(After 1.3 shit started getting wonky for me, so I just stopped messing with it. I don't usually work with the NBT code), but I haven't tried again since. From what I recall I needed somewhere around 12 base classes.

EDIT: I was off, somewhere around 24 is more in the ballpark.

[FlowerChild]

Wow... Here was his reasoning for making the mod:

It all makes way more sense when you view it in the context of being an act.

Seriously: I'd be extremely surprised if that has anything to do with why this is being made.

[Tartin]

Who else would want to see the project go more into the public eye again then Lex?

Actually I don't get where the connection with Lex wanting this to be more public comes in. How I see it Mattabase found the mod then started streaming it then Lex came in being a complete douche nozzle about FC but I dont see the connection between that douchery and him becoming a mega mastermind behind this for the purpose of ... unknown. I may be misinformed here but it seems to me BWF actually got infamous (it was completely unknown before that) when technic and MCF picked up on the dispute on IRC; because the mattabase stream usually only gets like 200-300 people which in the whole of modded users isnt that high.

[someonetobe]

These people are all completely flipping nuts. It gives me a headache.

I choose not to hang out in mental wards IRL. Because that kind of insane is no fun. And mental wards have the courtesy to not invade my basement ^.^ I wish Lex & co would extend me the same courtesy online.