What is BWF?

[Mason11987]

Amazingly, I managed to avoid any infractions, in spite of the clear bias and the fact I reported a moderator. Lucky dodge, I guess.

Well apparently there is an appeal process which I'm going through. My response was dismissive and sarcastic, but I think it's a stretch to call it "flame baiting" in a thread where it was basically the norm.

[walker_boh_65]

Well, a few issues that seem to have popped up overnight:
-SNIP-

Thanks for the information FC. I have had some differing reports on what needing BTW meant. Glad that is cleared up for me now.

As for morv, its another sad day to see a friend, especially someone who was as active as morvy was, banned, but I am sure you had your reasons.

[Calcifire3691]

Amazingly, I managed to avoid any infractions, in spite of the clear bias and the fact I reported a moderator. Lucky dodge, I guess.

I have a friend who is a mod on MCF, I just asked him about that, apparently, moderators are held to the same rules we are, they're unable to act on reports involving themselves, and that they get in trouble if they hand out infractions without good reason.

so you're probably not in any danger of being infracted for reporting a mod

[FlowerChild]

Amazingly, I managed to avoid any infractions, in spite of the clear bias and the fact I reported a moderator. Lucky dodge, I guess.

As long as you remain within the rules of the forum (which to my knowledge you did), you shouldn't be receiving infractions.

The "no us vs them" thread reason for which the thread was closed was a stretch at best. To my knowledge, there's no rule which covers what is happening right now, in terms of a group of people wanting to speak out against the wrongs of another. In fact, I find the whole reasoning behind that boils down to "no controversial topics" which I don't think carries much water given that it is next to impossible to evaluate objectively, and if applied universally effectively eliminates the possibility of all discussion.

At some point, I received a zero-point infraction myself for self-censoring swear words as I was trying to debate the whole "dick vs cunt" thing, as I was having a hard time discussing such a topic without specifically referencing the words, but I stayed away from doing so again, and that was it. I do think it wise however for anyone engaging in such a debate to become familiar with the forum rules so that you can stay within them at all times, especially in such a "minority speaks out against the actions of the majority" situation, as you can be sure tons of people will be spamming the report button if you slip up, and your post will likely be removed.

[Talrea]

all the BTW suporters who had signitures in the last few pages of the debate seem to have had their signitures edited out, they missed the ones active at the start of the thread though.
I'm guessing someone reported to one of the forge simpathetic moderates the face that they found the 'no means no' banners offensive. just checking the thread youl notice the lack of BTW banners in the last few pages, which were their before the lockdown.

I'm abit disgusted by the fact that even the moderaters seem pro-forge. aren't they suposed to be unbiased, and impartial?

[FlowerChild]

all the BTW suporters who had signitures in the last few pages of the debate seem to have had their signitures edited out, they missed the ones active at the start of the thread though.
I'm guessing someone reported to one of the forge simpathetic moderates the face that they found the 'no means no' banners offensive. just checking the thread youl notice the lack of BTW banners in the last few pages, which were their before the lockdown.

I'm abit disgusted by the fact that even the moderaters seem pro-forge. aren't they suposed to be unbiased, and impartial?

Honestly, I'd recommend reporting the moderator that does it if they remove your banner, and take it up with an admin if necessary.

There's actually a sub-forum for reporting such issues to the admins. I made use of it awhile ago when I was being harassed by a moderator (same one that leaked my private conversations), and it was dealt with promptly and rationally, with it resulting in the moderator losing his status in resolution.

I can't guarantee they'll side in your favor, but I do know they take such reports seriously, and it would at least give an indication of what rules they feel we're violating.

[Eriottosan]

Heh, this is my first time properly online since Friday, so I seem to have missed all the fun on MCF. I did change my sig over there in support before I left, though.

I'll have to give that thread a read at some point. I gave the whole thing some thought during my long hours travelling home for Christmas ... The end result is I'm more sickened by it than I was to begin with.

FC, you really have my sympathy. This really is a shit to you, and you certainly don't deserve it. I'll try and do my part if any other threads pop up. In the unlikely event that there's anything I can actually do to help, you just need to ask, as I'm sure is the case with everyone else supporting you in this. I genuinely do hope you're alright, man.

[Talrea]

i just want to say, please don't let this get to you,

i noticed something else as well, this forum you host, the people hear are nice and suport each other unlike the MCF forum, which seems to be filled with very infantile people. id be proud to be associated with the community here, unlike the displays ive seemn on the other forum.

its just terrible and sad that this has happened to somone such as you, yes you can be untactfully honest, but i see through that - its how you have to be to keep this running. and i'd be honoured to be accosiated with you and this community. If i ever can help i am here.

signed : talrea best

[slango20]

finally managed to register on these forums (lurker for almost 6 months), and in my opinion, maybe add some api hooks to BTW that makes it easier to make addons for the mod, but if it became compatable with forge, forge would do that for you. so no support for forge with BTW, Separate instances please

[FlowerChild]

Heh, this is my first time properly online since Friday, so I seem to have missed all the fun on MCF. I did change my sig over there in support before I left, though.

I'll have to give that thread a read at some point. I gave the whole thing some thought during my long hours travelling home for Christmas ... The end result is I'm more sickened by it than I was to begin with.

FC, you really have my sympathy. This really is a shit to you, and you certainly don't deserve it. I'll try and do my part if any other threads pop up. In the unlikely event that there's anything I can actually do to help, you just need to ask, as I'm sure is the case with everyone else supporting you in this. I genuinely do hope you're alright, man.

Thanks man, and yeah, I'm doing all right. Taking a few hours to myself yesterday to just watch some TV and putting a self-imposed restriction on myself not to check MCF during that time did me a world of good :)

It's a rough situation to be sure, but as I've mentioned before, me fighting back against this as best I can does a world of good for my own psychological well being. If I just rolled over in this and just accepted being creatively raped in this manner, I doubt there would be any way I could motivate myself to continue working on the mod. I'm really not good at dealing with being a victim, and it likely would have resulted in every line of code I wrote feeling like an act of submission towards people I hate, which obviously would have rapidly become intolerable.

So, even if it turns out that we can not positively resolve this situation in our favor in the end, the fight itself is beneficial to me, and thus to the future of the mod(s). In other words, even if only for myself, I know that I need to fight for my own well being, and really, for my continued desire to mod Minecraft since it is an activity I love so much, and am so passionate about.

And, as I've said, having the community rally behind me like this has also done me a world of good in reminding me with startling clarity that not everyone within the MC community is a morally bankrupt and entitled child. Again, I don't think I could continue modding if that was my mental image of the people that are benefiting from my work.

[TheMattabase]

Morvelaira: She is no longer welcome in these forums for reasons both within and outside of this debate. I will say though that she made an appearance in that 7 hour Stream promoting BWF, which was the point at which her not being welcome, became a ban. I personally am not aware of the extent of her involvement or position on BWF, but the extent of her connection with the Forge community (including her close association with BWF supporters like SlowPoke), and thus BWF has become significant enough that I am no longer comfortable with her presence here.

Who you ban is up to you but in the interest of truth, I would like to be clear the Morvelaira was not a part of that livestream. Myself being the broadcaster and teamspeak owner,she was present in neither.That is what I had to say. I do want to make one thing clear, I do not want to start a fight or make things any worse. I do like BTW as a mod. It creates something that is missing in vanilla. I just wanted to make that clear. I notice I was unban from IRC and I thank you for that.

[FlowerChild]

You know...I was going to keep this off-topic to avoid the opposition once again erroneously invoking the spirit of Godwin, but fuck it:



I'm tired of pussy-footing around the issue here and I think it's high-time to "call a spade a shovel":

What we're really talking about here is the majority persecuting an individual and attempting to eliminate them from the community because they hold different views, behave in a different manner than most, and refuse to conform to the will of the masses.

"I am an outsider/foreigner" (Ich Bin Ein Auslander) sums up who I am within the community quite well. I do not *want* to be part of a modding community. I do *not* interact with the Forge crowd on a day to day basis in chat rooms where we all sit around stroking each others egos instead of focusing on the act of creation itself. I am not in this for fame, love, or to compensate for my lack of popularity in high school. I am interested almost exclusively in the act of creation and attempt to eliminate everything about this that acts counter to it.

This makes me both an easy target, and easy to slander in the process because I do stand against the will of the masses in being who I am.

This simply isn't right. Despite being absolutely furious when I did it, I think calling Lex a "nazi" in my initial rant on the subject was entirely appropriate, and while I did try to distance myself from it somewhat due to all the Godwin bullshit being thrown around, I stand by it now. At an ideological level, LexManos and the others throwing their support behind BWF (SlowPoke included) are all acting in a very Nazi-ish manner.

And in reference to the above song I think the line "When they come to ethnically cleanse me, will you speak out, will you defend me?" hits the nail right on the head. Make no mistake here, the majority is quite intent on removing me from the modding scene, and stopping my ongoing act of creation because I will not conform to their will. If that is not an appropriate analogy for a group behaving like Nazis at an ideological level, I really don't know what would be.

So once again, I ask those ethical individuals reading this to please stand up and say "no" to this. When people behave in such a manner, it is simply not right to remain silent on the issue, as through your silence you are only lending your tacit support.

[FlowerChild]

Who you ban is up to you but in the interest of truth, I would like to be clear the Morvelaira was not a part of that livestream. Myself being the broadcaster and teamspeak owner,she was present in neither.That is what I had to say. I do want to make one thing clear, I do not want to start a fight or make things any worse. I do like BTW as a mod. It creates something that is missing in vanilla. I just wanted to make that clear. I notice I was unban from IRC and I thank you for that.

I won't ban you from these forums for the above statement. I will however ban you for being a brown-shirt wearing prick.

I'll also say that I distinctly remember Morv popping up in the voice chat at one point in your stream, with her being greeted by name, and again, while I do not know her position or level of involvement with BWF itself (as I clearly stated above), her association with the likes of you and SlowPoke is quite enough for me to want to have nothing to do with her.

[ServantOMallard]

Hey FC, just wanted to show my support for you in these troubling times. I won't say too much as most of my thoughts have been echoed in previous posts. Keep your chin up, and keep up the good work.

Just to help lighten the mood:

Spoiler

Show

Here's the letters BWF created out of dung blocks set against a backdrop of burning hellfire. Not the most subtle of visual metaphors...

Thanks,

Nath

[finite8]

Sweet Zombie Jesus has this become a shitstorm.

Out of loyalty to the tentacled one, i have applied the siggy to my MC forum account. I'm not very active there though so i don't see many ripples being made.

Sigh. Politics. Why can't people just stop being dicks.

I also recently fired up the Tekkit Launcher as the server i help administer, the other contributors want to roll with Tekkit and while i cant actually get it working at the moment (requires a bigger plan because Tekkit is a resource hog... go BTW!) i can see why the end user likes Forge, Tekkit and their ilk. The Launcher is really nice and the concept behind it is good. However, there is no justification to being a prick to someone who doesn't want to do it their way. What they have isn't official in any way and until Mojang have implemented something, i think they can stick it.

I remember a long time ago when notch was talking about the API and he said that he was going to open the source code up to subscribed modders as the scope of what modders can achieve by altering the base code is beyond what he could practically and efficiently provide and maintain in the form of an API. Forge is a noble concept, and in an official Modding implementation it may be useful for some modders, but there is no reason people should HAVE to implement it in order to be respected and treated fairly.

[FlowerChild]

Forge is a noble concept, and in an official Modding implementation it may be useful for some modders, but there is no reason people should HAVE to implement it in order to be respected and treated fairly.

Forge *was* a noble concept, hence why I acted as one of the founding members and threw my support behind it initially. The political "we will crush anyone who opposes us" beast it has become however, is an entirely different matter.

And yes...the irony that I helped create the monster that is now trying to consume me is certainly not lost on me.

[lostone1993]

For what’s its worth, I support you flowerchild
this makes me sick to my gut and bring back painful memories from a similar situation(different game) I found myself in. except I lost and had my mod stolen out from under me effectively

[wizardglick]

Hmm. My signature has also been removed from my MCF profile. No messages, notifications or infractions.

[Talrea]

wizard can you put it back? or has that functrion been disabled, just cuirious how they did it. eg was it just edited/deleted or disabled on your profile?

[FlowerChild]

Hehe...as an amusing aside, I was just browsing the Technic forums where of course people are having a great time ranting about my nazi and rape analogies.

In the midst of all it, at one point Kanker himself popped in, and seemingly oblivious to the irony of it given the context of the ongoing conversation, posted something ending with the following:

The amount of seriousness in the Minecraft community itself is like a terminal cancer.

Oh the lolz :)

[Eriottosan]

Thanks man, and yeah, I'm doing all right. Taking a few hours to myself yesterday to just watch some TV and putting a self-imposed restriction on myself not to check MCF during that time did me a world of good :)

Glad to hear it. When it's something happening online, it's hard to get away from it for a break for your sanity, so I'm glad you've managed to get some.

It's a rough situation to be sure, but as I've mentioned before, me fighting back against this as best I can does a world of good for my own psychological well being. If I just rolled over in this and just accepted being creatively raped in this manner, I doubt there would be any way I could motivate myself to continue working on the mod. I'm really not good at dealing with being a victim, and it likely would have resulted in every line of code I wrote feeling like an act of submission towards people I hate, which obviously would have rapidly become intolerable.

So, even if it turns out that we can not positively resolve this situation in our favor in the end, the fight itself is beneficial to me, and thus to the future of the mod(s). In other words, even if only for myself, I know that I need to fight for my own well being, and really, for my continued desire to mod Minecraft since it is an activity I love so much, and am so passionate about.

I agree entirely; it's amazing how much just fighting your own corner can do for mentality. People always argue for "rising above it" when people attack you, but sometimes, if you don't fight back, if you don't get angry and show it, it just turns it into self-loathing, or "an act of submission". It's a hard thing to describe, I feel, and something that is hard to believe if you don't have first hand knowledge, but it's true, as you've said yourself.

And, as I've said, having the community rally behind me like this has also done me a world of good in reminding me with startling clarity that not everyone within the MC community is a morally bankrupt and entitled child. Again, I don't think I could continue modding if that was my mental image of the people that are benefiting from my work.

Well, we love the mod, FC. And plenty of us (me included) have been here long enough and seen enough to respect you not just as a modder, but as a person. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, because it is true. So I'm not surprised in the least at how the community is rallying around you.

I hope you keep up the fight enough to stay sane. And again, you just need to ask if ever you need anything. Best of luck, mate, and I'll buy you a beer next time I have some money.

[Kreyesh]

Hey FC, haven't posted in a long time. Haven't even played MC in a while. But you all may remember me as the person that started and got a good bit into the beginner's guide on the wiki. Lot of fun that. Anyway, I've been routinely checking the forums and watching the updates, even if I haven't been playing recently and I just wanted to voice my support and say how much I appreciate the work you put into BTW. The forge crowd is obviously acting in an immoral, selfish, and immature fashion even if they are pretending to attempt to remain legitimate.

[Miss_Kat]

Man. I've been following this whole thing, reading everything, and this whole scenario is just unbelievable. Sorry I haven't posted until now, but I haven't been in the bests of states lately, so interacting in online crazyness wasn't possible. That said.. wow. FC you know you have this lurker's support. My hope is that the maker of this just gives up and disappears eventually, which is exactly what happens in the grand majority of mods anyway, original or not.

You know, I can't help but feel that this comes at no surprise. Not because this was bound to happen due to your distaste for forge, but because anytime this mod/community start to settle and finally get over whatever the previous bullshit was, something happens. Am I the only one who's noticed this? I'm not sure how many members here have been around as long as I have so maybe not. But it just seems this way, that there's always something that happens to disrupt you/us, cause drama and fighting. We can't ever seem to have more than a few months of peace at a time. :(

Of course, this is the worst, most fiendish thing that's happened yet. I'm still baffled that people expect you just sit idly by while your mod is yanked out from under you.

[Battosay]

As always Kat, you put words on thoughts I have in my head better than I ever could :)

Am I the only one who's noticed this?

Not at all. Over and over again ... :(

[FlowerChild]

You know, I can't help but feel that this comes at no surprise. Not because this was bound to happen due to your distaste for forge, but because anytime this mod/community start to settle and finally get over whatever the previous bullshit was, something happens. Am I the only one who's noticed this? I'm not sure how many members here have been around as long as I have so maybe not. But it just seems this way, that there's always something that happens to disrupt you/us, cause drama and fighting. We can't ever seem to have more than a few months of peace at a time. :(

Hehe...believe me man, I've noticed the same. Every time I seem to settle into a nice development groove in my nice little bubble here on the forums, and begin once again to just experience the joy of developing the mod, something from the outside of the system comes in and disrupts that.

I absolutely fucking hate it too, but as I've described, my personality really doesn't allow me to just let it slide when it happens. As you know from past situations, when I'm emotionally upset, I'm unable to concentrate, and thus unable to develop.

I don't really know what to do to change that, other than to shout at the top of my lungs here and hope that others in a better position to do something about it wind up hearing me.

Anyways, thanks for chiming in with your support. You've been a largely silent supporter with me on this journey since before these forums even existed, and hearing from you on this does mean a lot to me.