Best intro to automation?

[ignika42]

So, I've been a user of BTW for quite a while, and while I love the mod, one major aspect of it that I have never really explored was automating things.

Before I became one of the enlightened, I used certain other mods that made automation very simple, but because of their simplicity, they really didn't bring any sort of feeling of accomplishment, and when coming to BTW from them, I really never knew where to begin automating, so I never got involved with it.

So basically, what is the best thing for somebody just starting to automate things to begin with?

[Thalarctia]

I'd probably go with a hemp farm, piston based hooked up to a timer (about 1 minute is good), water stream carrying hemp across a wicker hopper, which sorts out the seeds, and then deposit the hemp plants in a millstone. Its a fun build that you will thank yourself many times over building.

EDIT: Also, the simpler you make your first automatic machines, the more room for improvement later on, so dont be afraid of not going "all the way" right from the get-go.

[Foxy Boxes]

Block Dispensers, or at least the resources required for them. In any multi-block automations I tend to find Block Dispensers essential and so I'd recommend having a supply of them on hand.

[KittenToaster]

So basically, what is the best thing for somebody just starting to automate things to begin with?

I think it's best to decide what resources you actually need first and concentrate on those. However I would suggest a sugar cane or hemp farm as a good starting point - they are easily made with a couple of pistons and an essential resource throughout the tech tree.

There are a few of these flowcharts flying about and many are a little out of date, but decide what you need and go build it 3 times larger than it needs to be ;)

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Have fun!

[BlackCat]

What I would suggest is getting a good understanding of redstone, and reading up on the wiki.

You can pop over to the IRC anytime and ask questions, and the useful builds thread is very...well useful.

Automating begets complexity, so as you begin to learn, your ability to automate should go up exponentially as you learn to combine concepts and then create new ones.

So first step, learn the basics of redstone, then come over to the IRC for a bit of help, and look around on the forums.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, Hemp or Reed farms are probably a great first step.

Actually, even before then you can just setup an auto-mill-stone that is fed by a hopper and channels the output off to another hopper and chest using water flow (which lends itself much more to automation than the "floor of Hoppers" bullshit I see some people doing). If you leave enough room to build above it, then you can go for the Hemp farm as project #2, and feed it into the auto-mill.

My advice: tackle small projects like this in a modular fashion one at a time to get started. Later, you can combine these individual systems as "building blocks" into much larger ones. Once you have these small ones down pat, they begin to lend themselves naturally to larger builds, and your understanding of them will make planning out those large builds much more daunting.

It becomes more a matter of "I need foo automated system here as part of this larger one" more than "I need this block and that block and that block...".

[PatriotBob]

... much more to automation than the "floor of Hoppers" bullshit I see some people doing...

That's almost always my starting millstone setup in the beginning since HCB.
/Feels bad

Building things in small automated blocks really helps get the feel for things. I find it especially useful if there all a fixed size (ish). 7x7x7 works great for me so far. And while you're learning how to automate this the output can just drop into a hopper. Then when it's connected to a larger automation, just pull out the hopper and let it flow on.

My two cents... but what do know... I put 8 hoppers around my millstone...

[FlowerChild]

That's almost always my starting millstone setup in the beginning since HCB.
/Feels bad

It's not bad when you're starting a world, but if that's all you ever do, you're not going to get very far in the mod with regards to automation :)

As an expedient for experienced players, that kind of thing can come in handy, but I think it's doing a disservice if recommended to players who aren't as experienced. The way the Mill Stone functions was really intended to introduce people to using water-flow in automation by giving them a relatively simple problem to solve involving it at start (damn it...I always need to be here to collect the stuff I'm grinding). It's kinda unfortunate that a bunch of Hoppers can bypass that, and as a result, I think it removes some incentive to move beyond that kind of thinking, but c'est la vie.

[PatriotBob]

That's almost always my starting millstone setup in the beginning since HCB.
/Feels bad

It's not bad when you're starting a world, but if that's all you ever do, you're not going to get very far in the mod with regards to automation :)

As an expedient for experienced players, that kind of thing can come in handy, but I think it's doing a disservice if recommended to players who aren't as experienced. The way the Mill Stone functions was really intended to introduce people to using water-flow in automation by giving them a relatively simple problem to solve involving it at start (damn it...I always need to be here to collect the stuff I'm grinding). It's kinda unfortunate that a bunch of Hoppers can bypass that, and as a result, I think it removes some incentive to move beyond that kind of thinking, but c'est la vie.

I had that very argument with a friend this week. He was ranting about why the millstone throws stuff everywhere. It's a solid design choice, only made a bit more difficult by HCB and the high cost of screw pumps. They require both and anvil and 8 iron to raise water one block. My habit of building a ways from water and putting my millstones above sea level is... well... probably not the best choice. But I'm stubborn and don't want HCB to force my build location to drastically.

Back on subject of automation the one thing I can't find a terrible amount of anything about it the feature of being able to power cauldrons (heh) and crucibles. Seems terribly useful, but I can't find anyone using that and most of my attempts end with my gearbox being aflame. Pretty sure axles don't have that problem but... meh further testing...

[tom_savage]

I've also not seen much of the 'tipping' feature of crucibles and cauldrons used. The feature seems very useful, and I'm glad it's there, but I haven't spent much time trying to use it in my systems.

Also, I have to agree, knowing redstone is a HUGE part of building automated systems.

[Six]

I've also not seen much of the 'tipping' feature of crucibles and cauldrons used. The feature seems very useful, and I'm glad it's there, but I haven't spent much time trying to use it in my systems.

I agree that tipping is super neat but underused. I think that comes from the fact that almost all of the crucible / cauldron products either are the end products, or need to be manually crafted with other things by hand to the next items. The only thing I spot on that flowchart where the tipping would be relevant for full automation would be kibble. Though I've also used it for processing iron tool and bow drops from mob traps, but that is only to break them down in to simpler components and deliver the results to chests.

[brab]

Yeah, Hemp or Reed farms are probably a great first step.

Actually, even before then you can just setup an auto-mill-stone that is fed by a hopper and channels the output off to another hopper and chest using water flow (which lends itself much more to automation than the "floor of Hoppers" bullshit I see some people doing). If you leave enough room to build above it, then you can go for the Hemp farm as project #2, and feed it into the auto-mill.

For my mill-stone collecting setup, I spent a lot of time experimenting with water flows to get a 3 blocks wide flow to become a one block wide flow without the items being stuck in the narrowing part. Is there some documentation out there on how water is supposed to behave? The minecraft wiki page on water is quite short about this.

Edit: tried to be clearer

[Six]

Yeah, Hemp or Reed farms are probably a great first step.

Actually, even before then you can just setup an auto-mill-stone that is fed by a hopper and channels the output off to another hopper and chest using water flow (which lends itself much more to automation than the "floor of Hoppers" bullshit I see some people doing). If you leave enough room to build above it, then you can go for the Hemp farm as project #2, and feed it into the auto-mill.

For my mill-stone collecting setup, I spent a lot of time experimenting with water flows to get a 3 blocks wide flow to become a one block wide flow without the items being stuck in the narrowing part. Is there some documentation out there on how water is supposed to behave? The minecraft wiki page on water is quite short about this.

Edit: tried to be clearer

That stuff has always given me strife, I tend now to just try to design flows to go from corners to corners. Not sure of any actual good detailing of how the waterflows and item pushing work, the wiki always seems a bit poor on specific details like that.

[FlowerChild]

I agree that tipping is super neat but underused. I think that comes from the fact that almost all of the crucible / cauldron products either are the end products, or need to be manually crafted with other things by hand to the next items. The only thing I spot on that flowchart where the tipping would be relevant for full automation would be kibble. Though I've also used it for processing iron tool and bow drops from mob traps, but that is only to break them down in to simpler components and deliver the results to chests.

One of the areas I really use it is string to wool conversion from my mob trap.

At present, it mostly becomes relevant where you want to send off the product for storage.

[Educated_Fool]

The only thing I spot on that flowchart where the tipping would be relevant for full automation would be kibble.

Funny you mention that, I'm currently working on an automated kibble machine where I use the tipping mechanic =)
But I agree, it's one of those features that is severly underused while it gives a really interesting mechanic to automation (only other place I use it is for smelting the iron from my mobtrap, I don't like keeping the crucible as storage device ^_^ )

[FlowerChild]

But I agree, it's one of those features that is severly underused while it gives a really interesting mechanic to automation (only other place I use it is for smelting the iron from my mobtrap, I don't like keeping the crucible as storage device ^_^ )

That's because it's one of the newer systems in the mod, with most of the automation pipelines having been designed before it was included.

As I add more of them, they will of course take advantage of tipping.

[Educated_Fool]

I like the sound of that =)

Also to the OP: I would suggest building a mobtrap with item-filtrating system. It is a bit more complex than most suggestions in this thread, but you can learn a lot about using waterstreams in building one. Just start small (Seperating nitre from the other mobdrops for example) and work your way from there.

[FlowerChild]

Actually, I totally brain-farted:

Vine farm. Definitely the easiest by far. Row of Saws, vines growing above them, collection mechanism, and you're done.

[Mr_Hosed]

Actually, I totally brain-farted:

Vine farm. Definitely the easiest by far. Row of Saws, vines growing above them, collection mechanism, and you're done.

Wait, saws will cut vines into item form and not destory them? Fuck me sideways! Screw waiting for steel to make my mob trap! I always thought BDs were the only way to automate vines.

Once I find my way back to my base I'm going for this one. (Hardcore Spawn + Enderman in base = Where the hell am I?)

@OP You DEFINATELY want to build one of these even if you never do any other automation just because of the shear number of vines you'll need to build a mob trap.

[brab]

Here are some of the very basic automatic systems I've built, as I'm so low in the tech tree (no hibachi yet) and haven't learned enough about redstone. I present them in the order I built them.

First, the automation of the collecting of stuff from the windmill. I'm pretty proud of the water flow, as nothing get stuck. The block in the middle of the water entrance is crucial for that (the way I think it works is that there is no water flowing in the center, so the water from the sides goes both forward and to the center, so at the end it can only go to the center, avoiding stuck items). The hopper to collect things is on the right.

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The next one is my duck farm. It's just a hole in the ground where there was some water.

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I feed them (and break the eggs) using a vanilla dispenser, activated with a button. I need to tweak this as sometimes there is a duck on the way and it results in some casualties (vanilla dispensers are fairly potent machines ...)

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I'm not too proud of the collection system: I put a bunch of hoppers at the bottom of the pool (which is three blocks of water deep). Eggs sink and end up there, as well as killed chickens and their feathers. I want to try to see if I can remove this and have a waterfall without having the swimming chicken drowning.

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Finally, and maybe the simplest of all: the automated vine collecting system, which also does not prevent the saw from being used.

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[Padfoote]

Whenever I start to begin my automation I start off by making an auto-saw. Basically I hook a block detector up to a block dispenser so that anytime a block is cut, the detector sends a signal to the dispenser and places another block. It's a small thing that honestly goes a long way as you no longer have to stand there and place wood in front of the saw, which frees you up for more time doing other things such as mining or farming.

[someonetobe]

The way the Mill Stone functions was really intended to introduce people to using water-flow in automation by giving them a relatively simple problem to solve involving it at start (damn it...I always need to be here to collect the stuff I'm grinding). It's kinda unfortunate that a bunch of Hoppers can bypass that, and as a result, I think it removes some incentive to move beyond that kind of thinking, but c'est la vie.

I think there is a roadblock in this design that was a repurcussion of hardcore buckets. Since the screwpump is higher in the tech tree, it makes water flow seem like outside-of-the-box thinking at that point. I don't think it's a natural progression anymore.

The floor of hoppers isn't just because it's easy, but because an elegant solution like waterflow isn't part of your toolset yet.

Edit to Clarify: This isn't a criticism of the hardcore bucket feature. Just my explanation for why the floor of hoppers is common, maybe even feels 'suggested' (for someone who doesn't read your posts).

Edited again: I'm not good at gathering my thoughts before I post, sorry for all the edits!

Wanted to include: When someone want to increase efficiency/productivity, and further automation, a floor of 3x3 hoppers under a millstone will no longer cut it, since that's impossible to power. You could power it with one missing from the center, but it would still be a sufficient challenge to do so, I think. Lots of space required. You could get the center hopper back and powered by lowering it several blocks, but this is a sacrifice in space, especially if your chests are on automated rails. The complexity level seems pretty freaking high at that point. So I think people would turn to waterflow by then.

[FlowerChild]

I think there is a roadblock in this design that was a repurcussion of hardcore buckets. Since the screwpump is higher in the tech tree, it makes water flow seem like outside-of-the-box thinking at that point. I don't think it's a natural progression anymore.

The floor of hoppers isn't just because it's easy, but because an elegant solution like waterflow isn't part of your toolset yet.

Edit to Clarify: This isn't a criticism of the hardcore bucket feature. Just my explanation for why the floor of hoppers is common, maybe even feels 'suggested' (for someone who doesn't read your posts).

Yeah, I can see your point, but I don't really agree with it. Waterflow is actually very easy to use pre-Screw Pump, you just have to build in a location conducive to it. Not wanting to totally get rid of that aspect of gameplay is one of the reasons why the pump is so high in the tech tree.

Perhaps though it has resulted in a shift in perception for players where they wait for it before wanting to deal with water, but it's really not because it's impossible to do so.

[Dr. Kylstein]

I think there is a path if you think in terms of real-world irrigation. For my first HCB farm, I dug irrigation canals in from the shore so that I could plant crops more densely in the area I had secured. Drawing from that experience, I then dug a a canal for my millstone. After some brief experimentation, I got the water flowing around the millstone, and then got it to single destination. (Ninja: As FC says, build from the water, don't count on water coming to the build.)

[someonetobe]

You're right. It's not impossible at all. It's just not as obvious as it was before. For a waterwheel mill, I think it is. But I'm sure there are some windmills beginers to the mod build not near water. Er... Like I did at first. =)

It's not a roadblock. That was too strong a word. More like a speed bump, for first timers.