[Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

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MisterFister
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[Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

Post by MisterFister »

I've done a search of these threads and also vMC. With BTW specifically, I don't get as many false-positives, but I only started playing BTW within the last year or two, and even then I had a hiatus of several months in between. A lot of the chatter on my topic seems deprecated, dating from ~2012 and somesuch.

I know from my introduction to playing in SMP, in general terms, that a mob grinder tower needs to have entities in the vicinity cleared by means of exploring and torching all the tunnels and surface areas within [some radius] and that the greater proportion of spawnable areas are torched, the more concentrated the spawn-possible unlit areas are within the grinder tower itself. I'm led to understand that there's a universal limit on spawned entities in the game, and by restricting spawn-valid locations with torches, I thereby increase grinder efficiency and spawn-density.

I also know that there are independent variables with respect to player position, and radius within which mobs MUST spawn, CANNOT spawn, and WILL spawn but with no possibility of mob movement. I also understand that, at least at one time, there was something known as "spawn chunks," wherein chunks within a certain radius of OS will exhibit always-loaded behavior but only to a certain extent...?

I know this effects redstone contraptions that straddle chunk boundaries when I'm adventuring (such as automated wolf feeders.)

I know that in the context of the SMP server where I was first exposed, in a world save that was well-established, post-SFS, VERY old, original seed generated pre-BTW, and even manually chunk-edited and chunk-relocated to recover from previous chunk corruption issues, etc. etc., that for some reason, the ongoing progress was focused on strip mining and torch-lighting the sub-strata within a 250x250 radius of a central location that had originally been determined with CAD-assisted designs of the mob grinder build placement. I can verify many of these measurements using some leftover video footage I helped to capture for a YouTube collaboration (the original justification for me to join the SMP crew.)

My current design needs are in SSP, and some wiki articles from vMC-beta suggests that there are different mob-spawn rules between SMP and SSP, and that those radius definitions were subject to tweaks even pre-BTW. (I'll reiterate what I've said in other posts of mine, I've never played vMC.) The SMP server I played on is no longer active, and even if it were, there were so many evolving rulesets, mod-builds, and vMC and BTW version rollouts, that I have no idea what "rules" continue to be valid guidance.

So I'm humbly asking for assistance here, because from my own searches, I don't know what info is current to my context as distinguished from info that was since rendered obsolete by vMC or BTW changes (I've attempted to read through the changelogs, but at the end of the day, my noobery makes it entirely possible that I wouldn't know the answer to my question if it slapped me in the face, especially considering that my baseline understanding is nebulous anyway.)

1. I don't entirely understand "spawn chunks" beyond some vague notion that the original design-intent of vMC was to create some incentive to build at OS, and that while some of those incentives persist in current BTW, those incentives have been dulled somewhat -- but I have no real understanding of what those incentives were, are, or continue to be.

2. For in-game reasons, I've chosen to settle my main base at Original Spawn. I've achieved rudimentary crucible tech with a pair of hibachis from my very first blaze rod, and my playstyle (where possible) is to build-in-anticipation of future needs and placement boundaries, within reason, and anticipating what will eventually turn into rather intensive aesthetic terraforming and hollowing of the sub-strata. I've located the biome-boundaries in the area, and I have a general guesstimate (with my visual settings and maxed load-distance and render-distance settings) as to how far off into the distance I can "see" when perched at my base entrance. For example, my nether portal is placed in an abandoned village that I found just beyond the "sight distance" from my original base entrance that was placed due to survival necessity pre-hoe and pre-pumpkins. However, from the location of where I anticipate my base entrance will be post-terraforming, the cobbelisk that I placed as a marker to the nether portal is VERY visible. For scale, I can say that from my currently-used base entrance, I can traverse the distance to my nether portal at a full-on sprint (with some un-terraced jumps and cleared grass) for a cost of approximately 3-ish hunger shanks, roughly twice the time that mobs will take to immolate at sunrise.

3. I have a passive goal right now to find at least a fourth diamond so I can operate a diamond pickaxe and shovel at the same time for purposes of initial surface-terraforming and boundary-laying during safe daylight periods. Having located a nether fortress that was practically within spitting distance of my first portal into the nether, my next progression-related goal (higher priority than finding the fourth diamond) is to spawn-safe the fortress with cobble slabs. Given my total lack of understanding redstone wiring and timing circuits, cobble generators are somewhat beyond me right now, so I think that means that strip mining and overworld-cave torching in anticipation of my future mob grinder would be a very worthwhile means of killing three birds with two stones (mining cobble for nether-mobproofing, diamonds / redstone / gold of opportunity, torching spawn-valid caves for future grinder efficiency.) Note that, absent this, a competing goal would be to venture outward with nether-tunneling for my first wheat seeds and villagers / temples of opportunity. Given my offline time commitments, I'd prefer to be able to alternate entire gameplay sessions between focusing on either of these two goals.

4. Obviously, insurance-diamonds in case I lose my pickaxe to a lavafall or other player-stupidity is also a concern here, as well as perhaps wanting at least a single bait-diamond for villager-corralling purposes.

5. Generally, is 250x250 a reasonable goal for OCD-level-thoroughness? Is that overkill? Am I looking at something like a 64 or 128 block radius around a mob grinder as ideal and that's it?

6. Given my noobery, any advice that you think I'd benefit from that I might be ignorant to ask for, please set me straight. Likewise, I'm willing to do my own reading, so even pointing me to known-valid forum posts or articles with info / spoilers known to be current would also be helpful.

Regards, and thank you.
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Niyu
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Re: [Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

Post by Niyu »

Im ony certain about one point.

Since version 4.65
[quote=changelog]Removed some lingering vanilla code that was causing some mobs to still stop wandering with distance from the player.[/quote]

So as long you are not far enought for them to de-spawn they will continue to wander.
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MisterFister
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Re: [Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

Post by MisterFister »

Niyu wrote:-snip
Yeah, that rings a bell from what I'd already run across, and that by itself I think led me to start paying attention to all of the datestamps of the other hits I got, and that changelog, again, was buried as not the highest and not the lowest relevance return. Unfortunately with such a "basic" set of questions I was searching answers for, I got a LOT of hits on the various keywords I tried.

Thanks, though. :)
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Rianaru
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Re: [Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

Post by Rianaru »

If you haven't come across them in your search already, check out flowerchilds dev diaries and threads relating to mob farms. Anything labelled spoilers might have something
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LannyRipple
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Re: [Timing rodent b] Mob spawning mechanics

Post by LannyRipple »

1) The MC wiki has a bunch of stuff on spawn chunks and spawning, etc. Basically the spawn chunk (and probably the 15x15 chunks around it) stays in memory and active. Trees grow, cows eat grass, chickens eat seeds (but don't seem to lay) even when you are somewhere else in the world. Otherwise the only "live" area of the world is the 15x15 chunks around a (any) player.

Redstone can be fun. For the most part things breaking across chunk boundaries aren't bad. Wolves can be dangerous though so use F3 to check your chunk boundaries and make sure your feeder and wolves fit into a single chunk.

Mobs will spawn up to 128 away from you but the farther away the larger chance they'll despawn. Thus you want your mob grinder beyond the "do not spawn next to player distance" but not on the far boundary. I like to keep mine no farther away than I can throw a snowball (which is surprisingly far). There's a good youtube explaining everything about spawn -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwKGGkjdEHI&t=868s It's been my experience that lighting up the surface helps a lot and then just lighting up caves without being rabid about it.

2) Not sure I can add anything here.

3) For diamonds, branch mining has the best return.

For redstone (http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Redstone_circuit) I recommend figuring out how to make

a) despawn clocks
b) torch-repeater clocks (design D and E)
c) two-piston T-flip-flop (For design O replace redstone block with stone and put a redstone torch under one side)
d) RS latch
e) dispenser double-pulser

Those along with the basic NOT, AND, and OR constructions will cover 95% of anything you'll need.

Flowerchild has provided cobble-generators. Look up Cement Bucket.

Death still happens and you'll be better off adventuring overland to look for wheat and villagers. Leave markers/roads and occasional supplied huts along your way and ending up dead isn't as painful.

4) See (2).

5) You *could* do a playthrough building in only a single chunk. Part of the fun of that would have to be the challenge of it though. Depending on what you want to build (e.g., can't jungle-spider farm except in jungles) you should have no problem in 250x250. (Note that 128 out from the sides of a mob grinder is gonna be about 250x250.) Looking at our main location from my most recent (5th) playthrough it's about 250x250 and probably 1/4th of that is ocean.

6) The Better Than Wolves wiki (http://www.sargunster.com/btw/index.php?title=Main_Page) is very complete. Using the search feature or Google is often the fastest way to find what you are after. The MC wiki (http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Minecraft_Wiki) has a lot of good info too.
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