Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery system

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TheAnarchitect
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Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery system

Post by TheAnarchitect »

This design is in response to the challenge in This Thread on a high-capacity nether compatible tube kiln. In that thread, the OP asked for pottery factory that could keep up with his kiln, recycled all clay, and worked in the Nether (ie, no water.) Well, here you go.
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The design is inspired partly by Battosay's Rube Goldberg machine. The pottery starts as a clay block on the turntable. A signal sent by redstone to the blue wool block pushes the pot and the clay into the hopper and then the block dispenser. The timing on this signal can be adjusted for different pottery types. A pulsing input at the green and purple inputs cycles through the block dispenser, putting out clay blocks and pottery, then sorting them. The timing on this is critical: The bottom piston extends, the block dispenser places, the bottom piston withdraws, and the top piston pushes. This causes pottery to fall into the hopper below, and clay blocks to get pushed into the feed. The next piston pushes it up the feed and eventually back to the turntable. The obsidian blocks are critical here, because it prevents the pulsing pistons from pushing the clay too far.

Meanwhile, the pot falls into the lower hopper, and gets deposited by an item dispenser (NOT a block dispenser) into the lower tube. This is a piston-based item transport tube like the one demonstrated in the Kiln linked to, and will move your pottery down the line to collection. This requires a pulsing input at the red wool location, as well as on either side of the item transport tube.
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Here's the view from the back. You can see some of the redstone that times the clay/pottery sorting system at the center of the design. I hope you can see how it works, because I have no idea if I describe it. Two redstone torches on the green wool block split the signal, the first activating the bottom piston, and the second going through another torch to invert the signal and carry it up a block. That signal activates the other piston when pulsed, and the one tick delay is all you need for the sorting mechanism to work. Another inverter and two 4-tick repeaters send the signal to the block dispenser. That line goes directly into a block next to the block dispenser with a redstone dot on top.
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The real advantage of this design is apparent in this view: It's only 2 blocks wide, and outputs the appropriate signals to the appropriate inputs if copied side by side. The Axles and gearboxes also all interlink, and at the bottom the item transport tubes connect so that all the pots created by a whole line of these will be collected into a single hopper at the end of the line. You can build as many of these in sequence as you need in order to get the production you want. Every so often (I suggest every 6 iterations) you need to add space for a repeater, but otherwise it's just build and go. The entire line can be controlled by a single timing mechanism. A turntable on a single tick will give you the pulses you need at the green, red and purple inputs, as well as for the item transport tube. Linking this to a block dispenser will give you the timing for the blue input and the pottery. This is perfect for a BTB builder bot, but the design doesn't use any buildcraft parts.
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Here's an example of a full line (this is actually the previous prototype, which had a problem with finished pottery building up in the block dispenser. This problem has been solved in the design presented.) You can see the timing mechanism and the gearbox setup to run the thing only takes up an additional 3 block width at the end of the line, while at the other end a single hopper collects the output. If that hopper was powered and over the block dispenser of the kiln setup, all the challenge requirements will be met.

Blueprints will be created and posted if and when BTB gets updated.

By request: World file. http://www.filedropper.com/btwlaboratory
I went ahead and made 4 iterations of the design plus a timing mechanism, which I'm sure could be more compact. This should give a good idea how the design works. I also went ahead and included a repeater at each input/output location, so a builder could just keep going.

Questions? Thoughts?
Last edited by TheAnarchitect on Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Starshifterxen
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Starshifterxen »

This looks brilliant!

Any chance of a world download though? I'm having trouble trying to visualise it in operation.

Edit: Spelling
Last edited by Starshifterxen on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Poppycocks
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Poppycocks »

I second that notion.
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Andellmere
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Andellmere »

Looks good from what I know about automation (Which isn't much. I've always been too 'hands-on' to automate really)
The only suggestion I'd make is: Could you spoiler the images? I've got a comp that's kinda on the slow end and my internet locked up for a couple of minutes while your page loaded.
Need a combination door? I've got one you can use.
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

Done and Done. Original post edited.
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Poppycocks
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Poppycocks »

Thank you :).
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Battosay
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Battosay »

Wow :)
Really awesome job in compacting it man, that's impressive !
I only went to 4 wide on my side, I'll have to take a closer look at yours ;)
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Starshifterxen
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Starshifterxen »

Thanks for the download - I just had a look.

Brilliant design. Compact and simple. Thanks for sharing :)
Elektrohawk
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Elektrohawk »

Impressive. Is that an npc village with 2 churches almost side by side?

Also the machine thingy looks neat. But where do I put the cows?


On a more serious note;

Trying to make heads or tails of where the clay blocks initially get loaded into, to start the whole process, what part are they inserted into, or is there a general mechanism that feeds them down the entire system that I am missing?
Lol nope
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

As of what's posted, you either directly place it in the block dispenser (It's accessible), or you drop them in as items into the turntable chamber. They'll get fed into the block dispenser the same as clay balls.

Of course, that means you have to load each one individually. This is practically speaking easy, but where's the fun in that? So I've been working on an auto-loading system.
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The lights mean my machine is empty. So I load 18 full stacks of clay balls here.
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And send it up to the machine.
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The machine itself is two 6-long blocks of my extendable design. Replace the water-wheel with a windmill and this would work in the nether. Those lens you see are part of the empty-detector: when there isn't enough clay left to make clay blocks, a hole develops over the second piston and the light shines through the whole length. When the elevator reaches the top the items go through the transport piston tube to get dropped into a hopper.
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This double hopper setup is needed for timing. The first hopper collects clay until it is completely full. Then it sends a redstone signal to a t-flipflop, which turns on the top hopper and turns off the bottom one. The top hopper drains into the bottom one. The bottom one fills, and sends a constant signal to a monostable circuit, which sends a pulse to the T-flipflop, resetting the system. This lets the bottom hopper drain, but not all at once....
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Gods, this is where pictures break down. I tried capturing a desktop video but I have no idea what I'm doing and it turned out really, really grainy. What you are looking at is an item transport conveyor belt system. It's alternating iron rails and solid blocks, pushed around in a circle by pistons. Items fall into the iron rails, and get pushed around by the solid blocks. The whole thing is run by a single turntable in the center. There are two empty blocks in the sequence, and pistons on opposite corners fire at the same time. You get a complete rotation every 2 ticks.

So here's our issue: we want to evenly divide our clay between all 12 of our turntables. So we have exactly 12 iron rails in our conveyor belt. They all line up over the turntable hoppers at one critical moment in the rotation. But before that we want to drop evenly divided amounts into all 12 slots. We do this by timing our hopper to pulse on when there is a rail block under it. That's going to require some serious timing work, but fortunately our conveyor belt system is also a rotating Memory drum at no extra charge!
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I used both glass blocks and cobble as my memory bits. The glass and the iron rails don't send signal, the cobble does. When a signal goes through, it pulses 2 ticks, dropping slightly less than a full stack of clay balls. There's a single repeater in the signal line to allow fine-tuning the timing. This is also the reason for the complicated hopper setup: I needed to turn off the pulsing signal until there was enough clay in the hoppers to be evenly divided. What I've got setup is kludgy and I'm sure it can be streamlined, but it works.

Once all 12 bins are loaded, they travel around the circuit until they are lined up with the hoppers. When that happens, block dispensers remove the block under the bit and all the items fall into their respective machines. So how do we time that? The same rotating Memory drum, of course! There's one special bit in our conveyor, different from all the others.
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That glowstone block travels around the circuit. It acts like glass when it passes in front of the redstone signal output, but when it passes in front of the lens, the lens sends signal. This activates the trap doors. That's right, Motherfuckers, thanks to the lens we can now encode a second type of information into our piston-based memory drums: redstone on/off, light on/off.

They system isn't perfect: it doesn't divide as evenly as I would like yet, and it's a mess of redstone right now. I fiddled with the timing so much even I don't really know how all of it works. I think with a little timing adjustment and some bricks in the hoppers I can get an even 1 stack to the bin, and I'm certain I can simplify my wiring. Also, it has the horrible issue of being a rotary design, while my turntable machine is so very linear. So we'll call this the Mark-2, and commence work on the Mark-3 tomorrow. World download Here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jjnna4ed39qn2kj

::Edit::
I also want to make it entirely clear that this is a work of Mad Science. By this I mean that somewhere along the line designing this, the Muse descended. I stopped thinking and just Built. I'm not entirely sure how the timing mechanisms are working. The redstone confuses me. Repeaters set to different delays by feel. I don't know why I need two hoppers on top, but it doesn't seem to work with only one. I have two lenses, shining down adjacent tunnels, with pistons fired from the same signal, that have different blinking frequencies like two different turn signals. They go in and out of sync with no explanation. One turntable setup produces a vase instead of an urn every third pot, and I can't figure out why. I think it might be Lag. The more I think about this machine, the less it makes sense to me. I'm hoping the Mark-3 will be more understandable.
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Elektrohawk
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Elektrohawk »

The first part is a truly magnificient extendable system that I fully intend to put into practice once I get a bit more of my world going to be able to produce everything listed, the second and more recent auto loader system, well, Its a bit too complicated for me haha. I can appreciate it, and be amazed, but at this point I am nowhere near that knowledgeable yet with using pistons and redstone to actually move items, especially with the hoppers and everything. Thats what I really love about BTW, I had practically everything figure out and understood with normal MC, and now I'm finding tons of new possibilities to figure out and wrap my head around.

By the way, how hard would it be to set up a system that would simply, in sequence, one, then the next, then the next, and so on, fill each of the extendable rings with clay? IE, it wouldnt fill the 2nd till the 1st was full, the 3rd till the 2nd was full, and so on, but as long as you had enough clay to fill them all, theyd all fill? I could convince myself to go collect ALOT of clay, if I knew the rest of the process was going to run itself lol.
Lol nope
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

It would be really easy, using water flows. Without them, well, I haven't been able to get it to work. The items get stuck over the full hopper and don't move on.

Like I said, even *I* don't understand the sorting system I built. I kinda tranced out and when I came to, it was there.
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embirrim
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by embirrim »

Wow I only just noticed this was a response to my thread!! Any chance of you measuring how fast each section goes? Cause mine's pretty fast =D you'll need like 10 or 20 of yours to keep up!
Also, I like the Rube Goldberg style, getting famous :D.

About filling individual stuff (electrohawk) it is Really difficult. I came up with a elevator/piston solution but it's incredibly time and space consuming. And complicated for that matter.
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by ialdbaoloth »

TheAnarchitect wrote:That glowstone block travels around the circuit. It acts like glass when it passes in front of the redstone signal output, but when it passes in front of the lens, the lens sends signal. This activates the trap doors. That's right, Motherfuckers, thanks to the lens we can now encode a second type of information into our piston-based memory drums: redstone on/off, light on/off.
That bit is really nice, and easier to understand than the rest.

Did you mention it gives you at least two bits per block?
Light blocks (or the new redstone lamps) conduct redstone like
a solid block, so you can get all four combinations (as long
as you power the block in front of the lens).

Using a lens as a light detector with the block unpowered
gives you six states - stairs/slabs block light and iron
do not, and an unpowered redstone lap blocks light,
but an unpowered light block is clear.
(I tested most of this on Fast graphics, but rechecked the
last bit with Fancy graphics on, and stairs vs. grates
works the same).
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

Six bits? I thought it was only four. Lets see we have (no redstone no light), (Yes redstone No light) (Yes redstone yes light), and (No redstone Yes light). And I'm not sure if there are in fact light-emitters in both redstone categories.
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

embirrim wrote:Wow I only just noticed this was a response to my thread!! Any chance of you measuring how fast each section goes? Cause mine's pretty fast =D you'll need like 10 or 20 of yours to keep up!
Well that's just it, you can't speed up how fast an individual turntable makes a pot, so the only way to increase production is to increase the number of tables. That's why I designed around infinite extendibility.
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embirrim
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by embirrim »

TheAnarchitect wrote: Well that's just it, you can't speed up how fast an individual turntable makes a pot, so the only way to increase production is to increase the number of tables. That's why I designed around infinite extendibility.
Yes I know I know. Good workaround. I'm just curious as to how much space it would take for something so big really.
ialdbaoloth
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by ialdbaoloth »

TheAnarchitect wrote:Six bits? I thought it was only four. Lets see we have (no redstone no light), (Yes redstone No light) (Yes redstone yes light), and (No redstone Yes light). And I'm not sure if there are in fact light-emitters in both redstone categories.
All four of those categories are occupied, if you check for light when the block is powered.
Glowstone emits light and doesn't pass current from a repeater,
light blocks and redstone lamps emit light (only if powered) and do pass current,
solid blocks don't emit light and pass current,
and transparent things like stairs or grates don't emit light or pass current.

You can get six categories with one more test.
Put a torch on one side and a light detector (lens placed directly on detector)
on the other to see if the block lets light through (when unpowered).
This separates light blocks (transparent) from redstone lamps (opaque)
and stairs (opaque) from grates (transparent).

Jack'o'lanterns would be a seventh category - conducting redstone and
glowing even when unpowered, but they pop when pushed by a piston.
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

This is definitely a case of me not understanding my own invention.

Would you be so kind as to post a screenshot or video showing each different bit?
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by ialdbaoloth »

This is going a bit beyond your invention, you got me thinking about how many ways there
are to tell apart blocks that can fit into a piston line.

Here's a two-bit readout:
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In this, each of cobblestone, slabs, light blocks, and glowstone have different results.

Here are all the tests I was mentioning.
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From left to right, it tests whether a repeater can send power through the block,
whether the block lights up when powered, whether the block lights up when unpowered,
and whether the block lets torchlight through when unpowered.

The last test adds a bit of power - it can tell steps from grates in the old
nonconductive/nonglowing category, and light blocks from redstone lamps in
the old condcutive/glowing category.

The test whether a block lights up without power doesn't actually add anything - the
only pushable block that does is glowstone, which can be identified by not conducting
power.

Finally, a little thing about redstone and light blocks that I don't
see a use for. A light block lets redstone wire connect up a step
like a "transparent" block, whether or not it's powered. I think it's the
only block that does this and conducts power to the other side when
powered by a repeater.
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embirrim
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by embirrim »

ialdbaoloth wrote: Finally, a little thing about redstone and light blocks that I don't
see a use for. A light block lets redstone wire connect up a step
like a "transparent" block, whether or not it's powered. I think it's the
only block that does this and conducts power to the other side when
powered by a repeater.
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Nice little theory, entertaining reading =D
One small thing though. Glass, and I think nearly all non-opaque blocks like fences, gates, and that stuff can also let redstone through, although it doesn't "connect" it lets the current through. Try it!
ialdbaoloth
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by ialdbaoloth »

embirrim wrote:One small thing though. Glass, and I think nearly all non-opaque blocks like fences, gates, and that stuff can also let redstone through, although it doesn't "connect" it lets the current through. Try it!
Thanks for suggesting a few things I'd forgotten, but you seem to be mistaken.
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Do you have some other idea of "lets the power through"?

It's not letting power take a step up that's special, any old transparent block does that.
What seems to be unique to the BTW light block is combining that with powering wires
on the other side when powered by a repeater.
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by TheAnarchitect »

I think experimenting with different light/redstone bits probably deserves it's own thread now.
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embirrim
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by embirrim »

ialdbaoloth wrote:
Thanks for suggesting a few things I'd forgotten, but you seem to be mistaken.
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Do you have some other idea of "lets the power through"?

It's not letting power take a step up that's special, any old transparent block does that.
What seems to be unique to the BTW light block is combining that with powering wires
on the other side when powered by a repeater.
Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were saying. Guess we're both right, and nice job finding that out.
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Re: Nether Compatible, Infinitely Extendable Auto-pottery sy

Post by Elektrohawk »

Your setup for the bottom left, facing from the front, did not work for me. The single redstone blocks between the green wool do not transmit the redstone current from wool to wool, and so, plugging in a current at the end did not work. I have removed the blocks in between the green wool (orange wool in my picture) with the redstone on them, and replaced them with 2 redstone torches on blocks underneath, with a current running to each one. I had to use 2 so that the current would be inverted properly. While the redstone runs a little wide on the bottom (Im sure you could probably fix this somehow), it now works properly for me. I had some issues at first with getting the timing to work properly, and just trying to figure all this out based on your pictures, but so far so good!
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Here are 6 screenshots in an album, of my (fully legit) construction based on your design. Gave me some headaches for sure throughout the process, but this is pretty awesome. thankyou

http://imgur.com/a/z6pnZ
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